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Campestergum: Forest Morph by Ascynd Campestergum: Forest Morph by Ascynd
Something different than the mil dragon...

Model by :iconswiddy:, texture recolor by me.
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:iconcraigjohn:
CraigJohn Featured By Owner Aug 26, 2011
A fine looking beast!!! :w00t:
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:iconascynd:
Ascynd Featured By Owner Aug 27, 2011  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Thanks!
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:iconcraigjohn:
CraigJohn Featured By Owner Aug 27, 2011
you're welcome! :)
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:iconcalum07:
Calum07 Featured By Owner Aug 18, 2011
Again, amazing details! O.O
Love the pattern on his wings.

(sorry f I get anoying and spamming your comments. x3)
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:iconascynd:
Ascynd Featured By Owner Aug 19, 2011  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I've never been annoyed by getting a lot of comments... I just may not have time to read them all for awhile. Thanks!
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:iconryoshi22:
ryoshi22 Featured By Owner Sep 26, 2010
Truly amazing work on that, both the structure and the textures!
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:iconascynd:
Ascynd Featured By Owner Sep 27, 2010  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Thanks! Swiddy made the model, I just gave it some markings. =)
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:iconstarcraft3000:
Starcraft3000 Featured By Owner Sep 25, 2010  Hobbyist General Artist
wow what for amazing digital works
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:iconascynd:
Ascynd Featured By Owner Sep 25, 2010  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Thanks! =D
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:iconstarcraft3000:
Starcraft3000 Featured By Owner Sep 25, 2010  Hobbyist General Artist
you´re welcome
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:iconascynd:
Ascynd Featured By Owner Aug 7, 2010  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Thanks! Though I did not design the anatomy, Swiddy did... I did alter the texture in such a way as to hopefully show it off. =)
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:iconmyuutsucmce:
myuutsuCMCE Featured By Owner Aug 1, 2010
The anatomy looks quite good too!
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:icongriffara:
griffara Featured By Owner May 27, 2010
Holy Guacamole!!

How did you do that!
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:iconascynd:
Ascynd Featured By Owner May 27, 2010  Hobbyist Digital Artist
It's a render using Poser 7.
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:icongriffara:
griffara Featured By Owner May 28, 2010
Looking that up right now!

But still its pretty amazing along with you other work.
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:iconascynd:
Ascynd Featured By Owner May 28, 2010  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Thanks! =D
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:iconlil-mz:
Lil-Mz Featured By Owner May 15, 2010
Your amazing artwork has been featured in my journal [link] Have a great week!
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:iconascynd:
Ascynd Featured By Owner May 27, 2010  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Aw thanks! =)
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:iconlil-mz:
Lil-Mz Featured By Owner May 29, 2010
you are most welcome :)
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:iconmyuutsucmce:
myuutsuCMCE Featured By Owner May 5, 2010
Wow, your renders rock!
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:iconascynd:
Ascynd Featured By Owner May 5, 2010  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Thanks! Adjusted the color and re uploaded it so it wasn't getting resized... even full view was looking blurred out.
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:iconmyuutsucmce:
myuutsuCMCE Featured By Owner May 5, 2010
Welcomes!
I see, anyway so far your arts looks with a great detail and very realistic, as a thumb view I thought it was actually a photo. :3
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:iconblue-saphi-dragon:
blue-saphi-dragon Featured By Owner May 3, 2010  Student General Artist
ah yes I see alot of improvement on this one :)
the background fits well and there's more rock where the dragon is posing instead of just one single rock, this helps to make it look more real and not as "fake", the blur also helps to that effect, very nice and smooth
The dragon is very well worked up too, the muscles are more defined and the legs and wing arms not as thin, although in my opinion the wing arms could be a little more thick and show more muscle. I think the belly that shows could be worked on a bit more, but the scales kinda cover up for that.
Very nice overall, keep it up
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:iconascynd:
Ascynd Featured By Owner May 5, 2010  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Thanks! Can't do anything about the model proportions, its not mine... it does have a better proportion and more realistic anatomy than the mil dragon though, that's for sure.... lol
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:iconlegolos229:
Legolos229 Featured By Owner May 2, 2010
Wow... howe'd you pull that off! it looks real!
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:iconascynd:
Ascynd Featured By Owner May 5, 2010  Hobbyist Digital Artist
It's a Poser 7 render with a lot of post work on it. =)
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:iconlegolos229:
Legolos229 Featured By Owner May 6, 2010
Isee.
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:iconazefish:
AzeFish Featured By Owner May 2, 2010  Hobbyist Artisan Crafter
The wings look great & same for the head...
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:iconascynd:
Ascynd Featured By Owner May 5, 2010  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Thank ye.
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:icondbrv6:
DBRv6 Featured By Owner May 2, 2010
Excellent very well done - great work wiht the wings and head.
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:iconascynd:
Ascynd Featured By Owner May 5, 2010  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Thanks!
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:iconlordofdragons:
LordOfDragons Featured By Owner May 2, 2010
I think the saturation doesn't match, he's too dull. Try hiding him in a real forest environment to see if the skin matches. My feeling tells me no.
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:iconascynd:
Ascynd Featured By Owner May 5, 2010  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Adjusted his color a bit.
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:iconlordofdragons:
LordOfDragons Featured By Owner May 6, 2010
Yeah, looks better now. Personally though I don't like the wings. Cloth-material is plain wrong for wings as wing membranes have an entire different look and physical properties than cloth. Doesn't really make any sense to pull the wings all the way down the tail. Not only can the wing not properly fold/unfold but he would also nose-dip while trying to fly :D
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:iconascynd:
Ascynd Featured By Owner May 6, 2010  Hobbyist Digital Artist
"Cloth" is a subjective term here, the properties can actually be adjusted to simulate whatever you like. I'll have to do some images of the creature flying to show what it can do. Either way it's far superior to flat polygons in that I have yet to see anyone do a decent job of making a membranous wing on a model available to me that looks and behaves like more than flat plastic. Find me one and I'll use it. =P

As for the wings attatching down past the hip, I assume that's mimicry of how a bat's wing extends down the body, though bat wings attatch to the legs. Bats fly very well, but there's a few things people don't seem to account for when making dragons with batlike wings in general. As far as I know, bats never 'soar' or 'glide', they must flap constantly to keep aloft. I don't know if this design of wing is feasible for soaring at all... a pterodactyl style wing would probably work much better. And that type attatches to the leg and tail both.
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:iconlordofdragons:
LordOfDragons Featured By Owner May 6, 2010
Actually I've not seen one single cloth type simulation of a wing which looks correct to be honest. For animating flying cloth simulation is bad since cloth simulation (from a math point of view) is designed for one-side attached geometry. It utterly fails under heavy tension and multi-attach situations. It has a tendency to "over-shoot" and produce these unrealistic high frequency wave patterns. With weight painted solutions you have high control over the shape and allows you to animate air influences for which you would otherwise need computationally expensive air-flow simulations. Even then the results are not great since you need to provide so many inputs to the simulation that it gets too tedious to work with. For fold wings (non-tension situation) cloth simulation is another topic. I've though also not seen one good looking simulation in that situation neither.

It's actually not correct and one reason why next to all dragon models I've seen so far fail physics. It's true with bats the wings connect to the legs but that's for a different reason. Bats are what do what is called "active flight" in zoology (or sometimes called "true powered flight"). For this kind of flying the wing has a certain design and the important part of the wing is at the outside. The body near part is not very important. This is a little miss-belief by many that the connection there is to lift more weight. It's only for guidance purpose. Dragons (or any flying animal of such a build) does not require a guidance flap since the tail is already the guidance flap. Due to their size and body build dragons are impossible to use active flight so they can especially not use bat like wings as they only work for active flight. Always funny to see dragons drawn with bat wings as this doesn't fit together. You guessed therefore right that from a physical point of view a bat is unable to soar. This is where pterosaurs come into play. They have an entire different wing design which is the exact opposite. Pterosaurs do what is called "passive flight" in zoology. There are only a few animals which managed to evolve passive flight. It can be considered the "king discipline" of flying. It's a flight form suitable only for large to huge animals like Ornithocheirus or Quetzalcoatlus as it is the only energy efficient way an animal of large size is able to fly for a long time. Wings for this flight form differ in that they are very broad but thin. This is because for soaring you require a large attack area for the airflow. Now there is another little mistake many make and this is that the wing attaches to their legs so they drag it down on tails of dragons. The mistake here is the different body build. Pteorsaurs have a very short torso. The membrane attaches to the leg as the body itself would be too short. On a dragon though the legs are spaced like on a land living animal so the required space for the membrane to attach is already present. Moving the membrane further down the tail has the opposite effect. The now too broad wing does not improve the flight characteristics but worsens them. Two problems arise. On one side the membrane does no more form a proper airflow profile due to moving body/tail and causes turbulences. Turbulences on the other hand produce drag gradually reducing the flight speed and breaking the airflow around the wing (unstable flight). The second problem is as mentioned above the "nose-dip". To fly an animal requires an equilibrium. With other words the central mass point has to reside under the rotation axis. To understand this imagine you have a model of the dragon on your hand. Now put it on the tip of a pencil. There is one point where you can balance the model (if you are good enough). Above this point (where the wings connect to the body) is the rotation axis. If you put the pencil too front side the model tail-dips while placing it too back side causes nose-dipping. Now the pencil in the real world is the central mass point. If the wing membrane is moved backwards to the tail the rotation axis shifts towards the head. This happens because the air attacks for a longer time the back part of the wing instead of the front part. The dragon would take a nose-dip and flight would be impossible. This is actually the most common mistake in dragon designs (which are supposed to be realistic) that the rotation axis is not above the central mass point.

So this had been now a bit a lengthy explanation of the problem with membranes going down to the tail and why they are bad on a realistic design. I hope I explained it in a comprehensible way :)
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:iconswiddy:
Swiddy Featured By Owner Jun 5, 2010  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Hey

So the biology isn't quite accurate for a dragon. I would like to point out though that I got the idea of simulating membranes from Reign of Fire and they did the same with the Hungarian horntail in harry Potter. In blender you can do both cloth sim and weight painting, and it works well together. But poser doesn't allow that. Well poser doesn't do weight painting. Also, for badly rigged or at least animated wings look at the movie Beowulf. Though they were both simulated and weight painted, when it raises it's wings up at the cave entrance you see a noticeable bow or curving of the membrane along the outer edge that should not occur.

Just my two cents. I prefer simulated as it gives a very natural feel I think, if you have the density and elasticity right.
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:iconascynd:
Ascynd Featured By Owner May 6, 2010  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Yep, I knew that, that's why I said the pterodactyl wing design would be superior. That aside, most people don't know this and draw bat type wings just because it's traditional and 'looks cooler'. I'd be interested though in what sort of modifications would have to be made to the fingered wing type to make it capable of soaring. For dragons I write for (primarily the Shadowrun type) it's a moot point, since their flight is magic-powered and the wings serve for little more than steering or in some cases are purely ornamental (or completely nonexistent). =)

Now when I draw my own dragons, I often attach the trailing end of the wing membrane just behind the hip where the attachment serves primarily to help keep the wing surface stable at the trailing edge. The fellow who designed this model has another dragon where the membrane attaches even further down the tail than this one, and although that one has a short neck and a very large bony club at the end of that tail I'm not sure the club would provide an accurate counter balance. ;)

As for animating and the cloth effect, I have no experience on the subject. For simple animation sequences you can do frame-by-frame, such as for a game animation, it wouldn't be a problem as you can fix any odd dynamics errors, but it wouldn't do at all for a movie where you have to pump out tons and tons of frames and trying to edit them individually would be extremely impractical.
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:iconlordofdragons:
LordOfDragons Featured By Owner May 6, 2010
Pterosaurs use a pinky-finger design so the entire wing is spawned up between the wing arm and the pinky finger. This way though the area in the middle of the wing is not as controllable as it can be and narrow as this is required by how membranes spawn under tension. The modification would be to pull the fingers back into the wing. A dragon does not need them as a second pair of legs as it is nowadays assumed for large pterosaurs so they are free. Pulling them back into the wing allows to add more stability and controllability to the middle part of the wing improving control of flight path and especially to pull the wing membrane away from the wing arm. This increases the wing area which in turn produces additional up-drift. This can't be done at will though which is another problematic point with common dragon wings: they are way too huge. The larger a wing gets the less force/up-drift ratio it has. Hence with growing wings you need over-proportionally force input to gain more up-drift. More force requires larger muscles. Muscles are though the second most heavy body part. End result is that the weight of the muscles grow faster than the up-lift it produces. So there is a "sweet spot" for the size of the wings. A dragon can only be realistic if it hits this wing size. So the modification of the wing has to stay moderate. With my calculations I could though nearly double the wing area compared to the largest pterosaur which has been enough to counter the extra weight a dragon has due to his different body build. They are on the upper bound of what can fly but it works.

No, that's incorrect. In games you do it the same as in CG movies. You use key-framed animations as you do in CG movies. You just simply use export scripts to sample CG type animations into pure bones driven animations as game engines only support those. The animation itself is even more complicated than a movie animation because you have a bunch of restrictions to cope with like self-looping animations, being prepared for dynamic animation (see my dragon locomotion video for an example) and optimized for speed. In CG movie animations you can use more bones and make well rounded static animations. Since the camera is fixed and every shot is well defined you can fine tune animations to look good from the given perspective. In a game it has to look good from all perspectives so you have to tinker with animations longer. So in general you use the same techniques as for CG movie animations. Cloth simulations are also used nowadays in games. They are though still a bit problematic speed wise. I did some experiments a few month ago with a spring-constraint wing model. It's flawed as the physics library is work in progress and spring constraints have just been recently implemented. Although not yet looking good it felt more like wings than a cloth system. That said I'm also going to experiment with that as I have some ideas on how to combine things. It's not going to be used for flying since there you really need full forward kinematic control over the wing to add the credibility only an artist can make and physics routines do lack.
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:iconascynd:
Ascynd Featured By Owner May 2, 2010  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Thanks! That depends on the forest, but definitely not the photo I put him up against, I agree, lol... however, this was mostly a test of the pattern to see if it looks good. I may strengthen up the light banding a bit, or extend the markings down the legs, or add some more mottling down the back. The tail also needs work, the striping needs to be shifted down a bit so that it starts under the wing line and not above it... the dorsal surface of the creature should be mostly dark. Once all that is nailed down though I can adjust the color any way I please. =)
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:iconlordofdragons:
LordOfDragons Featured By Owner May 2, 2010
I would definitely remove the pattern from the wings. It looks strange and the white outlines are very prominent. In fact I doubt a forestine animal would have its wings unfold at all except for actual flight.
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:iconascynd:
Ascynd Featured By Owner May 2, 2010  Hobbyist Digital Artist
That's what it's for, a little break up of the outline from overhead... where this critter comes from there are definitely larger predators. It would look better as lighter color from underneath and perhaps more mottled on the top though, but that can't be done with the model as is, the wing is a single dynamic surface, and as such it can only have one texture, not a different one for top and bottom.
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:icongramatak:
Gramatak Featured By Owner May 2, 2010
Realy good Render. Maybe the shadows are a little bit to dark but great work.
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:iconascynd:
Ascynd Featured By Owner May 2, 2010  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Yeah I need a 3d program that can handle a background with lots of trees, trying to match it to a photo just doesn't work. =P But I was focusing on the texture for the most part. Thanks!
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:icon10animallover10:
10animallover10 Featured By Owner May 2, 2010  Hobbyist Writer
It looks so realistic :)
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:iconascynd:
Ascynd Featured By Owner May 2, 2010  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Thanks! It's not my model, Darren Smith does great work. I'm trying to give it some additional markings and colors, the original is a sort of pale brown.
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:icontwistedndistorted:
twistedndistorted Featured By Owner May 1, 2010
Thats really awesome!!!
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:iconascynd:
Ascynd Featured By Owner May 2, 2010  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Thanks! =)
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:icontwistedndistorted:
twistedndistorted Featured By Owner May 2, 2010
No prob :D
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:iconwhitewingeddragon44:
Whitewingeddragon44 Featured By Owner May 1, 2010  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Wow that looks so realistic.
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May 1, 2010
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